Harold Estate.

Hi Rod

Good idea so I will start you off.

My grandparents  lived at 28 Harold Estate from the time the estate opened untill she died in the early 1940s. I have viivid memories about the flats in particular the large hot water tank that was on the wall in the living room which was fed from the coal fired back boiler, a massive cylinder some 2 foot diameter and 5 foot high a monstrosity and while everyone chatted the children were sent out to play alone in the forecourt.   How times have changed

Joe

Hi Rod

Well i'm not a Bermondsey "boy" but am a Clyde Buildings girl. My grandad was Joe Stacey the caretaker of Harold Estate and believe it or not i cant remember the door number lol, however i knew every inch of Harold Estate. I lived in Clyde Bldgs from birth 1946 to 1962 when we were re-housed and he was the caretaker for all that time, we left just weeks before he died. I dont remember any boys names that lived on the estate at that time, however i do remember the girls names and they were - Christine Willoughby - Diane Dumbrell - Joan McKenzie - Janice Moorcroft and Christine Boxall - and a couple more that lived in the Railway Bldgs in Webb Street. I went to Webb Street infants/juniors and then on to Bermondsey Central (Pages Walk) until it was split.. The girls joined Paragon and a new school was Built in the New Kent Road called Trinity. Not too sure where the boys went lol. The one thing that sticks in my mind is that when i went back for a nostalgic walk around the whole area (a few years ago) was just how SMALL the estate was cos in my mind (when i was small) it was huge - plus it had changed so much and looked so different (as everything did). I have to admit i was so dissapointed when i got there and saw the changes, i made up me mind then i would never go back as it was no longer the place i remembered anad i wanted to remember it as i knew it.

Bett (Cole as was)

Hi Joe

Yes we had one of those big hot water tanks in our living room to. One of my weekly chores was to polish the copper pipes leading to it, funny thing is iv'e just come in from polishing the brass on our front door, how sad is that. I remember the original fire was one of those cast iron types that you could cook on as well as heat water and of coarse heat the room. It was replaced I think sometime in the late 40's with a tiled fireplace.
 Thank's for starting us of Joe.

Rod.

Found a picture of 28 Harold Estate the flat in which my grandparents lived top floor right next to the stairs at the bottom end of Webb Steet.

Dont know much about this estate was it all known as Harold Estate or did each block have its own name?  I wonder who lives there now?.

It was all known as Harold Estate.
There was a railing alley way that seperated the Blocks which ran up to the Victoria pub and to Webb Street.
This Picture shows where I lived and I have tried to put names and flat numbers as far as I can remember.

Harold Estate - Recent

Harold Estate About 1957
Looking from number 57 where I lived.
Me and Terry Russell who lived at nuber 58.

My friend Peter Feddon lived in the flat the other side of the stairs, which must have been no 29.
 When we went on our expeditions I was always extra pleased to have him along because he would have an old cigarette packet filed with crusts cut from toast, I presume it was from breakfast. They always tasted really good after exploring old bomb sites, buildings and anything worthy of a Bermondsey boys interest.

Rod.

Hi All,
I lived at number 61 Harold Estate from 1965 (my birth) to 1976 when we moved to Orpington, Kent. I have often thought about starting a Harold Est site but never got round to it. Have some pics of various family members taken on the balcony looking towards no,57 Bermondseyboys abode we must have moved in after the Horton family (about 1963/64). My nan also lived on the estate first upstairs top floor looking towrds Webb st (not sure of number) and then as she got older she moved to a downstairs flat opposite Clyde bldgs, she used to take a chair outside on nice days and chat to passers by.
I now live in Suffolk and am bringing my two sons who are 10 & 5 to visit Bermondsey tomorrow (weds 18/8/2010) for the first time. First stop Manzies even tho' we used Joyces when living there. Only my 2nd visit since 1981, very excited and nervous (hope I'm not too upset by changes). Will let you all know how I got on. Have loads of memories which I will share later with pictures if anyone is interested.
On a lighter note, both my sister-in-law and my husband (neither from Bermondsey) thought that when we (the family) spoke about our childhood we were saying 'our old estate' not Harold Estate must be our accents ha ha.

Hi Bermondseywaller
You mention about your Nan sitting outside on fine days, I remember an old Lady who used to sit outside her flat, just on the left of the archway faceing Webb St. What has allways stuck in my mind, is when someone had dyed, a collection was made and she would sit outside with the wreath that had been bought for the funeral.
 David Horton who lived in your old flat was one of my mates.
I hope you enjoyed your trip to the old place, just out interest which way up did you eat your Pie. this is very important ( look in "The Great Pie"n" Mash debate" ).
  Rod.

Hi Rod
Its just gone midnight and I arrived back in Suffolk from our trip about an hour ago. Pie was eaten crust down, with liquor and vinegar of course!!  A real treat. I am sorry to say that I wish I hadn't gone back to Harold Est. I was quite tearful. I don't like all the grass and gardens its destroyed the square. I just kept thinking about all the things that were no longer there. Railway & Clyde Bldgs. Garages opposite our flat - now a car park and new OBC, Little fenced off garden that you walked through to get to Webb St. Houses/tenements opposite my old school (Grange). The old OBC and adjacent football (i think) pitch. I went armed with a camera but couldn't bear to take any pics. I'm glad I didn't take my mum (now 74) with me as I think she would have been really upset. Looks and feels too different, no soul, just seems unkempt and unloved. My advice to anyone who hasn't been back in the last 30 or so years is to keep your memories intact and don't go back. TBR also (apart from Manzes) seems dirty and soul-less. Sorry right ol' misery guts aint I.
On a lighter note. Do you remember the toffee apple man who used to ride into the estate on his bike with a big tray/basket on front full of toffee apples yelling "tof-fee a' puls" at the top of his voice (a forerunner to the ice cream van I think). Also the big jar of "doggie biscuits" behind the bar at the Vic, I think they were a penny a go, Arrowroot my mum now tells me. I used to go buy one but only if my Dad wasn't in the pub a the time as he would of gone spare at me going in a pub. Oh dear! Seems to be a theme to my memories - food. Just thought of something else -sugar sandwiches from an old gent who lived in the railway bldgs. He used to let his dog out on its own as his pins were a bit dodgy  (the man not the dog) but used to worry if he was out too long so he'd ask us kids to bring him back home. Our reward was a sugar sandwich, how easily pleased us kids were. I'll shut up now before I start going on about school dinners.
Dawn (Bermondseywaller).

true dawn the memory is often better than the reality  i was down pages walk about 5 years ago looking for an old peoples home .my mother in law was in there the only address i had was that street where your sister used to live it turned out to be right at the top facing the flyover i was asking people but no one was english so they did'nt understand me i found it in the finish anyway my sister lived in clyde buildings about 1969 me an my girl were up there for the new year we went in the vic when it got a bit hectic i went on the roof of clyde building an it must have been 12 oclock cos you could hear  all the ships blowing there hooters

Rod

Couple of pictures from the Southwark Archives but its even before my time

Harold Estate under construction 1934

And a modern kitchen 1934 style     How things have changed

Hi Bermondseywaller,
 I know what you mean, I have got used to the way it looks, but it's annoyeing to see a bloke standing on the landing at 10.30 in the morning drinking a can of extra strong lager, not the first time Iv'e seen this. They were decent people when we lived there, I think every household had somebody working,
not relying on handout's all the time. I still like to go back, at least they have not yet been pulled down to build some sou-less heap, as they have all to often. (best to keep an eye on things but not much one can do if they do something unthinkable. )
 But let's not despair, I do remember someone comeing round with Toffee apples. And Arrowroot biscuits I was never sure whether I liked them or not, also sugar sandwiches I liked them . When I was very small a Man used to come down Pages Walk with a Horse and Cart, on the back was a little roundabout, four small seat's would fold down, and with a big starting handle type thing he would turn it round. He charged about a half or one penny a go.
 Most people seem to eat there pie's upside down, I do try it like that sometimes, but let's face it they taste bloody good either way Rod

Hi Fosney 
 Thanks for the pictures, I have seen them before but it's good to have them here. Did you have to buy copy's and scan them.

Rod.

Hi Rod/Fosney

The Pictures are already on site, check out Quick Find Photo List B0026 & B0027 B0099, B120 to B0123 incl.
Great to see all these before and after photos.
I am trying to get as many old photo's of Bermondsey as i can before everything is lost and all we have is our memories (and my memory is fading fast as i get older).
Keep those photos coming, and thanks to you both for contibutions they are much appreciated.

Bermondseyboy

Hi Jimmika,
I don't remember hearing ships hooters at new year but I do recall hearing people callng out Happy New Year to everyone in the flats as they left the Vic just after midnight, neighbours would stand out on the landings and call out to each other as well. I used to play on the roof of Clyde bldgs with my mates, we used to think we could see the Eifel Tower, I know now that it must have been the transmission tower at Crystal Palace - oh the innocenceof youth.
Dawn (bermondseywaller)

Hi Rod,
Know what you mean about the people changing, my dad was a foreman at Anchor butter which i think was down long lane somewhere.He used to trade with the bloke who owned the fresh fish place in TBR, nice bit of smoked Haddock for Saturday tea and also with someone who worked in a bakers for fresh bread and rolls - perks of the job in those days as long as you did'nt take liberties! My mum juggled bringing up 4 kids, all kept clean an well fed (proper home cooking), kept house and held down 3 jobs. She cleaned early morning, worked at ABC bakers during the day and worked in the cloakrooms at the Royal Festival Hall in the evenings. On top of all this she still took her turn cleaning the stairwells in our block (there was a rota apparently which was included with your rent book).  No rubbish anywhere except on bin days when it was left at the bottom of the stairs on the square. Sad to say, didn't look as if anyone bothered anymore nowadays.
Dawn

dawn i worked at anchor butter down morgans lane or abbots lane off tooley st about 68-69

HIya, Think my dad worked there mid70's as he as there in 76 when we moved away. He got me some wellies once for a school trip to a farm in 1973 (couldn't afford a new pair just for a one off), awful they were, creamy white, mid calf, all the kids took the mickey but i s'pose it wern't as bad as missing out altogether. Can't imagine my kids putting up with hand me downs. Still NEVER DID ME ANY HARM I appreciated all the little things that came my way as a kid, still do.
Dawn

The Square as we remember it,although they had built an air raid shelter on the right, it's were I spent the first few years of my life.
 A great playground, for cricket, football, knocking down ginger, skipping for the Girls ( I some times try it now, it's supposed to be good  for us, it's bloody hard work ) well done Girls.
 Just one thing Dawn, when you signed of the first I thought you were referring to the time of  day,dawn silly me.
 On the caption it say's this was taken in 1932, a bit before most of our times.
 Rod.